Huw Knight: What I'd like to do, if it's OK with you, is look back on the progress of Big Moon, how it's going and so on, then look back at last year, cos 1997 was kind of busy for you,and then ahead to 1998, and then finally, I've got some questions that my fellow secret agents would like to ask you. How does that sound?

Judie Tzuke : Fine, fire away!

HK : Thanks - OK, lets start with the record labels. How long have Big Moon and Antidote been going now, and how are things going generally?

JT : Eighteen months. We're sort of on beam really, but we're not there yet. We've got a two year plan, and, hopefully, by the end of that two years, we'd have done better than we expected. At the moment things are as we expected them to be, but there are things happening, so that may change.

HK : What sort of things are going on at the moment, or can't you say?

JT : Yeah, I can tell you ! I'm working with Jazzie B, and he's done a really good mix of Two Mountains ( off Under the Angels). It's really good, it's not wild, and its not way out there - pauses - its sounds quite natural. He's actually made me sound quite happy, and I told him that that's no mean feat! Laughs. We were talking about maybe doing some more stuff as well, which is really good. What it does is gives me an opportunity to get on to radio stations that wouldn't normally look at me.It's not like I'm changing what I do - I do what I usually do, and he's changing what's going on around me.

HK : That sounds really good ! Would it come out on Antidote or Big Moon?

JT : No - at the moment they're talking about doing it as a small limited edition, but of course we'd get some for the database, so it would be available to the fans too. It would primarily go out to the clubs, and then see what happens from there really.

HK : You're a bit into this really, aren't you, 'cos I remember a while ago we talked about you doing a dance version of Stay with Me till Dawn. What happened to that?

JT : Yeah, we did it. really got into it. We might even do some more work on it , it all sounded really great, then we drifted off the plot a bit really! Now we've got a bit more time, we could get that going again too - some people might be interested, I like it! I'm not trying to become some kind of soul diva or dance queen, I'm not doing that, it's just, that, when I grew up I had two kind of parallel influences. One was the suicidal artists, and I've kinda perfected that one - laughs, and the other was the soul thing which I've always liked. I've always gone out and bought the odd soul record and loved it, and what I'm trying to do with Jazzie B is to get him to interpret what I do in a more souly way. When you listen to it, it oesn't sound that unrealistic, it sounds natural. It's not finished yet, we're only at the first monitor mix, but it sounds extremely promising.

HK : You mentioned influences when you were growing up. Whose music really influenced you - I remember you quoting Joni Mitchell in an old interview ....

JT : Yeah, though funnily enough I listen to her more now ! I tended to be more influenced by male singers, Paul Rodgers, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder were the soul influences, and I was as much influenced by them as I was by Joni Mitchell, James Taylor, Jackson Browne, Steely Dan, a band called Orleans that I used to listen to ( they did Dance with Me) , so there's all that lot going on, but I never really kind of got to grips with the soul side. In fact, when Pax and I first started we were very much into doing a white soul kinda thing , sort of Hall and Oates, though we never really got there.
We wrote the odd one -Love Like Fire, Shoot from the Heart, Safe House - there's always been that little bit there. Wonderland was actually a good combination -it had the Marvin Gaye thing on that I did, so that was going that way too.

HK : What does the Jazzie B version of Two Mountains sound like?

JT : He's put in some jazz guitar, and there's some organ too. He calls it "urban", and that's fine by me! ( laughs)

HK : 1997 was a very busy year for you. How do you look back on it now?

JT : Well, I think it was the best and worst of years in many different ways. There were some fantastic moments, but it was really an experimental year. It was a learning experience for all of us, and maybe there were some venues which in hindsight, were a mistake. But I learnt a lot! I still don't feel as though I'm firing on all cylinders, but I will get there - I want to feel and look a lot fitter than I do at the moment.
It was good for my music though, in a strange sort of way, it's made me look more inwards, and face a few demons. I've always been insecure about the way I look, and going on stage last year, looking, in my eyes at least, the way I did, the way I'd always had nightmares about, and doing OK, taught me that the person who judges me the hardest is myself .....

HK : I think that's true of a lot of us, isn't it?

JT : Yeah, but it was a good lesson to learn, so now I realise that I DON'T have to look a certain way - I'm doing it for myself more, it's given me more confidence, and, in that way, I think I'll manage to do it.

HK : So, what does 1998 hold in store for you?

JT : Well, I'm doing this album, Secret Agent, which I'm VERY excited about - I feel it's the best stuff I've ever written.

HK : Who have you been writing with ?

JT : Everybody! I've written four with Richard ( Cardwell), 4 with Dave Goodes, one with Pax, one with Bob ( Noble) and 2 with Peter Gordeno. I don't know which ones will make it, we're still messing around with them to see which ones work.

HK : How far advanced is the album?

JT : We've done 7 or 8 backing tracks, and we're thinking of using all of those. They've got quite a lot on them already actually, so we want to do another 3 or 4 backing tracks.

HK : Originally, there were plans to tour in April. I've received comments from some people that they're disappointed that you wont be doing a full tour until September. How disappointed or frustrated are you about that?

JT : As we've said, last year was a really busy year for me, so maybe we were a bit too optimistic. I want to be in a position to do some new stuff, 'cos there's nothing worse than doing the same set. we all need a break, and as a result of that I'm doing some good stuff now.

In all honesty, we did TOO much last year - 57 gigs in all. We've got a new drummer for April, and hopefully we'll use him again in September. I still think that we're looking for the right drummer for us - I mean, all the drummers we've worked with have been great. I thought Gordon did a fantastic job in November, given that we had so little time to rehearse. He really suited the venues we played.

HK : He reminded me of Darrin Mooney - same energy. Do you still see him?

JT : Darrin? Yeah. He's been busy too - did Louise for a while (ooeerr), then Spear of Destiny. I'm not sure what he's doing at the moment. we were going to use him in April, but then though that it'd be a great chance to try someone else too. The way I work now, it's great to have a few different options. Not having the backing of a major label means that we can't afford to retain people, so we've got a good choice of people to work with.

There's 3 or 4 keyboard players, a couple of guitarists - tho' I want to use Dave more than anything - we're lucky with John, he's a good bass player. We've got to be realistic though - they're all working musicians, and if they're in the middle of a 3 month tour when I go out for 2 weeks, we couldn't realistically expect to use them.

I think out of all the drummers we've had though, I've felt most comfortable with Darrin. It'd be great to find another like him so we could alternate!

HK : Who are we likely to see on stage with you in Brighton?

JT : Well, the band as it was, with our new drummer, Paul Beavis (no jokes please !), Pete Gordeno's gonna come down, Richard will probably come down and play. I don't want to say to much because other things may or may not happen! we've got our usual two days rehearsal - laughs - so who knows? I don't!!

HK : It's going to be a special night!

JT : I hope so.

HK : Some of the secretagents off the discussion group asked me to ask you a few questions. The first one is, who would you most like to do a duet with?

JT : Wow! Great question ....(pauses to think) ... Sting. Yeah, I'd really like to work with Sting.

HK : Why Sting?

JT : I always felt that our voices would sound great together, and he wrote "Fragile" which I always wish I'd written.

HK : Do you ever feel frustrated that some bands, and we won't name them, have little or no talent, but, due to the massive amount of press that they get, are now megastars, and, given that, how comfortable are you now with the level of success you had in the early 80's?

JT : You can always look back and ask " what if?" Of course I get frustrated, but even if I'd have had the PR, there's no guarantee that it would've happened. I may not have liked it, if it had!

I'd love to be more successful than I am, but what I'd really like is to write some stuff for, we'll say Celine Dion, so that I can make a living from that. That would allow me to carry on doing what I'm doing, making my albums the way that I want to make them. I don't want to have to change that much.

I want to do more theatres than clubs, which we're gonna do in September. I want to play the songs I want to play, the way I want to play them, without any outside interference from anyone else, and the only way I can do that is the way I'm doing it!

Therefore, to be able to make a living, I need to find somebody, some people, who can go out there and record my songs and sell them! I'm not in that market really. I guess what I'd really like is more relief in paying the mortgage!

It's a bit scary really, 'cos unless we hit our target, then this is the last album for me. It really depends on how things go. It's a bit like an expensive hobby at the moment, but I don't know what I'd do without it. We need to move on to the next stage now to make it viable as an ongoing thing.

HK : So how do you do that?

JT : We just keep working and hope that people hear what we're doing, and that more people buy it, and that makes it work.

HK : What sort of plans do you have to get your music to a wider audience?

JT : Well, there's Kirsty Hawkshaw, whose album comes out next month. She's done For You - I don't know what the fans will think of it, but I like it! I do all the backing vocals on it. She wants to do more of my songs. There's also an american lady called Karen Blake whose done Parallel Lives, and it's just fantastic, really different. She's got a voice which is like a cross between Shawn Colvin and Karen Carpenter - it's really great to hear it, and she wants more songs too.

So we are doing it. If one of them had a hit then that would change everything.

Kirsty's young, very beautiful, and very much up for the whole commercial thing - she knows what it's all about, and has much more ambition than I ever had!

HK : If you look back over your recording career to date, which are your own favourite albums, and are there particular tracks that you're really fond o ?

JT : My favourites are Welcome to the Cruise and Under The Angels. I'm fond of Wonderland and bits of Left Hand Talking and Turning Stones, but I'm not crazy about some of the in between albums like Ritmo and The Cat is Out. But there's a lot of reasons for that, could be the recordings or the way we treated them, lots of different things really.

Wonderland and Under The Angels are far more the way I want my music to sound than any of the others. The first one is a favourite 'cos there are songs on there that I wrote when I was 14 .... I wrote Bring The Rain when I was 14, and it still means as much to me now as when I wrote it, and I'm still the same person that I wrote it about.

Ladies Night too, I can still remember the night I wrote it, and what I wrote it about. A first album is ALWAYS special - a realisation of all the things that had happened to me up to that point.

HK : What was the inspiration behind Left Hand Talking?

JT : LHT was purely what came into my head. I was sat doodling one day with my left hand, and I looked down, and I'd written "This is my left hand talking", and I thought " that's weird" - laughs - so I went upstairs and just carried on without thinking. All the emotions just came out without thinking too much about it - which is how I tend to write these days. It was the first time I'd written like that!
I don't stop to make things sound clever or rhyme, I don't spend much time on it at all now. If it's not well on the way in the first hour or two then I leave it. Most of the songs I write now are done really quickly, and I find that's better, 'cos they have more meaning.
I used to ponder over lyrics for weeks in the early days, and when I look back on them now, I can see it in my writing!

HK : Some artists are getting a lot of success now through film soundtracks and commercials. I remember a while ago that there was talk of you doing something for a film too......

JT : Yeah, there still is. The film was all ready to go in January, then they lost the backers again, so we're still waiting to see what happens with that. It's something that I think I could do, and be quite good at, and enjoy it too.

HK : How did you get involved in the Poppies album, doing "Lives In The Balance"?

JT : Well they asked me to do a war song, but 'cos I love Jackson Browne, I thought Lives In The Balance would be good to do, and I love it anyway. It was done really quickly too!

HK : Do you ever see yourself moving to France?

JT : I definitely see myself buying somewhere out there, and spending some time out there, if I can afford it. Whether I go there permanently - that's a BIG thing. I would've done it when I was younger, but I'm to used to England! It all depends on what happens in my career.

HK : Any message for the fans out there on the discussion group?

JT : They meant SO much to me last year, and gave me so much confidence and reassurance by just coming to see me, and I want them to know I really appreciate that! Hopefully, they'll come back again, and bring their friends too ! I hope that Brighton sells out, it's going quite well, but I'd love it to sell out.

HK : Any chance of getting hold of the Rocket stuff?

JT : Not much - they know about Kirsty now! There is a small possibility but I have to accept that it wont happen at the moment, which is a big shame.

HK : There's a lot of demand for Phoenix on CD ....

JT : Yeah, I know. It's not impossible. I could always re-record some tracks, and that's something that I'm talking to Jazzie B about too, because I could redo all those tracks ....maybe I could do a copy of it! Wasn't it Chris Rea who did " New Light through Old Windows"? I'd like to do something like that, but I need more success to be able to afford to do it!

There are songs I'd like to re-do from each album, maybe in a different way. There's lots of possibilities like that, but as far as the original Phoenix album goes, it's gonna be bloody hard to get!

HK : That's it for me Judie, thanks VERY much for taking the time to talk to me. Good luck for Brighton, see you there!

JT : You're very welcome.. see you soon.